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My love affair with Olds trumpets began in 1977 when my dad handed me his 1946 Super trumpet to use in High School. Many years later, when looking for a good student trumpet for my son, I rediscovered Olds trumpets and have been fascinated by the innovation and longevity of these finely crafted American brass instruments.
This document builds on work that Eric Hamelin did more than a decade ago as a part of the Olds Register. I assisted Eric with chronicling some of the changes associated with the Olds Super trumpet during its 40 plus years of production . There have been some new discoveries since this original document was prepared in 2008 as well as some revised estimates for the years of production of early Olds trumpets. Although no additional entries can be made, the information collected from Eric's work with the Olds Register can be found here.
My thanks to Ron Berndt, Dale Olson, Charlie Melk, Robb Stewart, Alan Rouse, John Trayer, and Paul Ayick for assistance with this project. The photos are credited when known, but several were saved from eBay listings and other internet sources over the past 20 years. Often nothing is known of the history of a particular instrument, so an occasional anomaly is to be expected when dealing with instruments that are 60 to 70 years old. Sometimes it is easy to identify a modification, but other times it is hard to know if a Super left the Olds factory with some unusual feature or if it was modified years later. Pages from some of the catalogs from Olds Central are included to track design changes along with the related marketing efforts.
Due to some errors in dating the Olds catalogs featuring some of the early trumpet models, the Super was thought to have begun production in 1932; however, more recent estimates by Robb Stewart now place the first production of the Super trumpet in 1937 with the first published catalog showing the Super (shown above) to be from approximately 1937.
It is likely that some of the design/material changes that occurred in the Super model before, during and after WWII can be useful in revising some of the dates of production.
This new model certainly combined a number of features to create a unique trumpet in an era where there was a lot of innovation underway in brass instrument making. There isn't a single feature that sets the Super apart from other Olds models or those of competitors, but rather the combination of design and function that made this new model so popular.
Alan Rouse (Olds Central) made this comment as we were discussing the Super trumpet... "I've always felt that the features that make a horn great are not obvious to the naked eye. Tapers, tempering of the metal, precision of dimensions, etc are not readily visible. Many of the features that we use to recognize a model are mostly cosmetic. In many cases the distinguishing features served a marketing purpose."
Even though a series of design changes occurred over the years, the Super trumpet remained a fixture in the Olds lineup as other models came and went or were completely redesigned. Super trumpets were still being made up until this great American brass icon closed its doors in 1979.
Shown above is #39xx a testament to Olds' genius! (photo by John Trayer)
The Super has a "wrap" unlike any other Olds trumpet and is about an inch longer than most of today's traditional Bb trumpets and is about 1/4 of an inch longer than the French-made Besson trumpets. Obviously, the total length that the air travels is the same as any other Bb trumpet. Although the Super is only slightly longer than the French Besson, the length from the tip of the mouthpiece receiver to the middle of the crook of the tuning slide on a Super is almost a full inch shorter than the Besson. This distance is made up on the bell section of the Super which results in a longer trumpet body.
The Super also has a spacer on the lower tubing from the tuning slide to the body which allows for a shorter tube on the bottom leg of the tuning slide (as do Besson and Benge trumpets) which sheds more than an inch of brass tubing off the bottom leg of the tuning slide. The original Supers used a thinner gauge of brass which also contributed to it being a lightweight instrument. The photo above is #10175, courtesy of Paul Ayick.
The German silver (also, called nickel-silver) "spun reinforcing band around the bell" was a new take on "garland" or "kranz" that had been used by European brass makers. Nickel-silver is a major feature used extensively on the Super for the outer slide tubes, ferrules, upper balusters, and tone control band. Nickel-silver is a copper alloy with nickel and zinc (but no actual Silver).
This same nickel-silver band was used on the Recording model Super Trumpet (today known as the Super Recording) when it was introduced in 1939, but not continued when the Recording model with the Re-O-Loy bell (another example of the creativity of both product design and marketing) was introduced in 1949. Re-O-Loy is brass with a higher copper content.
The photo above is from an eBay listing for Super Cornet #5745.
After the introduction of the Super, later marketing efforts referred to this as a "Tone Control Band".
The Tone Control Band remained a unique feature of the Super Trumpet (and cornet) within the Olds line up of trumpets. The distinctive hand engraving continued in the iconic artistic and style shown above until approximately #13000.
The engraving style is a push or carved method perhaps using a template on the nickel-silver band.
The photo above is Super 39xx courtesy of John Trayer.
The strut style braces on the Super model had been used on other Olds models and along with the trombone style water keys, are a distinct Olds feature. However, the Super was the first Olds model to use a new style of knurling on the finger buttons, top caps, and bottom caps.
Other early Olds models used an angled style knurling which continued to be an Olds trademark on thousands of Ambassador models which would come later.
The Super sported a stylish finger button with a beveled edge and a single horizontal groove near the bottom the side profile. This same new style finger button was later used on the Super Recording and subsequent Recording models. Sometime in the 1940's, the Special model also began using this style of finger button. Between serial number 112706 and 119882, the horizontal groove was removed from the side of the finger button.
The top and bottom caps featured fine vertical grooved knurling, which would later be used on other top line Olds trumpets and cornets such as the Recording and Mendez. but would also be used on the Special model.
#18168 is shown above courtesy of Centex Brass. This is my dad's Super which was beautifully restored by Charlie Melk.
The leadpipe of the Super trumpet has a unique taper among Olds models and some have speculated that this contributes to the open blow and intonation of the Super. The Super was the first Olds model to include a tuning slide brace.
From reviewing entries in the Olds Register, it is clear that Olds made models in batches. The earliest recorded Supers are #3724 and #3725, but this batch could have included additional Super trumpets. There is a report of a lower serial number, #3699, but this has not been verified. The next Super is #3924, followed by a batch that includes #3938, # 3947 #3954, #3958 and #3961. These are the only Supers recorded in the 3xxx range. The number of 3xxx range Supers documented has grown in recent years. Certainly, others are out there in private collections, so hopefully more early Olds Supers will be identified.
#4866 (photo by Centex Brass) is shown above with the tuning slide brace and spacer on the bottom connecting tube to the tuning slide.
Some attributes are related to trumpet design and others are cosmetic. The Super included several attractive features like the extensive nickel-silver trim and the mother-of pearl inserts on the 1st and 2nd slide nibs. Also notice in the photo shown above that the connecting knuckles between the valve casings were also nickel-silver. This photo was provided by John Trayer of a 5xxx Super.
These very early trumpets, like the first catalog have forward facing 2nd valve crooks (ala Besson and later Benge) and side mounted 1st slide throws. Some have 3rd slide adjuster/stop rods. The first catalog that has been located which features the Super (shown at the beginning of this article), mentions the Super was "made in only the one special bore" which Robb Stewart has identified as .462 on early Supers. These early models had seams in the mouthpipes.
Robb Stewart has a detailed analysis of two of these early Supers on his website that can be seen at this at this link. One of these trumpets is #3954, which I owned at one time. A photo of this trumpet by Robb Stewart is shown above with the forward facing 2nd slide, side mounted 1st slide throw and main tuning slide brace. This is one of the trumpets in this range that does not have a 3rd slide adjuster/stop rod. Although I did not sell it directly to Robb, I'm pleased to see that it found its way to him so he could document the specific characteristics of this early Super.
The primary focus of this article is the Super Trumpet, but the Super Cornet will also be mentioned. The earliest Super Cornet recorded so far is #4095.
Although Olds had been making trumpets for almost a decade before the first Super trumpet, none of the earlier Olds trumpets had the forward facing 2nd valve crooks and no other Olds models ever had this feature. The photo by John Trayer above shows an example of this forward facing 2nd valve crook. By #4319, the 2nd valve crook was rear facing and continued that way for the remainder of production.
Within the first year or so of production, some changes began to take place.
• 4000-4300 During this range of serial numbers, the forward facing 2nd valve slides were changed to the standard rear facing design.
• 4300-4750 Tone control bands grew to the widest and began a reduction in size until 5500, where they remained fairly constant throughout the remainder of production.
The photo above a photo from Super 4549 with a wide tone control band. (photo by Centex Brass)
• 6694 - Last recorded Super with a side mounted 1st slide throw saddle.
• 6880 - First recorded Super with a top side mounted 1st slide throw saddle. #18168 is pictured above. (photo by Centex Brass)
The 1st slide throw saddle continued on the Super trumpet until #19585 and then did not return until the 1970's
The Super Cornets; however, continued to have this 1st slide throw saddle uninterrupted until the Super Cornet was discontinued sometime in the late 1960's or early 1970's.
This is the second Olds catalog that has been discovered so far that includes the Super Trumpet. This catalog is dated 1939. It uses the same graphic for the Super Trumpet as the previous catalog, but by the publication of this catalog, the forward facing 2nd slide and side mounted 1st slide saddle bracket had likely already been changed. There are several examples over the years where the marketing literature doesn't always match the current production model.
All of the early Olds trumpets had the serial number stamped on the second valve casing a well as the piston spring barrel, valve stem and top cap. The last two digits were stamped on the bottom caps as well as the top side of the inside leg of each slide tube. The serial number would drop off of top cap and valve stem after WWII, but continue on the spring barrel into the 1960's consistent with other Olds models of that era. Above are examples of the serial number stamping on #11907. (Photo by Centex Brass)
The last two digits were stamped on the bottom caps as well as the top side of the inside leg of each slide tube. The photo above shows the last two digits stamped on the top inner leg of the 1st valve slide of #13563. Often these are quite worn. This stamp was discontinued shortly after production resumed after WWII. (Photo by Centex Brass)
Early Supers had the strut type main bell to leadpipe braces, similar to other early Olds models. The photo above shows two LA Supers.
The “Aircraft Strut” brace style, which appears well into the 1950's in other brands, is an aesthetic link to the American obsession with aviation following WWI. By the 1940s though, the “Streamliner” aesthetic had gained huge traction culturally through the 1930s (and is also a factor in the phenomena of “pea-shooter” trumpets), and the later brace is clearly designed in a streamliner style.
The older Super is #4788 on the left side of the photo has the early strut type main braces. The satin silver Super #14605 on the right side of the photo has the streamliner style that became the standard bracing in the early 1940's, (Photo by Centex Brass)
It seems logical that design changes occurred in a linear timeline, but there are often changes that occur intermittently over a short amount of time, before the design change becomes consistent in all horns in sequential order. The 3rd slide adjuster/stop rod does not have a precise end date.
• 3900-6600 3rd slide adjuster/stop rods were used intermittently. The photo above shows this on an early Super trumpet.
Although somewhat unheralded, this tucked away stop rod is infinitely better in both function and design than the troublesome low hanging stop rod with ever-disappearing nuts used by Conn, Bach and others. It was not unique to the Super, but was indicative of innovative designs of Olds.
The circa 1938 Olds Catalog indicates that the Super trumpet was made in only one special bore, but a year or two later, there were a number of Supers produced in several different bores.
• 4788 The earliest model showing a bore marking. This one is marked with an 'M' on the 2nd valve case (on the opposite side from the serial number) and measures to be a .453 bore. This trumpet is shown in the photo above.
• 4879 Another 'M' bore marking on the 2nd valve case in original polished silver has been identified as an unaltered original horn.
•4788- 6670 Many of the Super trumpets and cornets in this series were stamped with bore markings. In addition to the two known M bore as noted above, there are 3 known so far with the SYM bore, which in this period measures .462. There are 6 others recorded with LM bore stamped on #2 valve casing including a few cornets. The photo above shows the SYM bore stamped on a Super in this range.
Further research is needed, but there are a number of examples of Supers in the 9.000 to 12,000 serial number range without a bore marking that measure as a .462 bore. Perhaps this coincides with the literature comment about "one special bore".
This piece in the 1941 catalog provides a description of the three categories of Olds models at the time. There were Trumpets, Cornets, and Trombones in each of these categories. The Recording model Super Trumpet has just been introduced and was included in the category of "Super" Instruments.
The Super trumpet in the 1941 catalog shows several differences from the 1939 version. The 2nd valve slide is now rear facing; the first slide saddle bracket is mounted on the top of the slide; and the view of the trumpet is angled so that the third slide stop rod screw is visible.
Robb Stewart's revised serial number estimates indicate that Olds Trumpet and Cornet serial numbers would have been around #10000 at the start of World War II. Based on a couple of data points, it appears that production may have actually increased significantly in 1942 before decreasing in the last years of the war. The characteristics of Supers in the 6000 to 11000 range appear to be the same, but then changes begin to occur. Three Supers with the "angled style" knurling have been identified (with serial numbers stamped on the top caps) in the 11000 range. The photo from Centex Brass shows #11907 which has this different style finger buttons and top and bottom caps. These are the same style that was used on all the other Olds models during this era. Perhaps this was the start of some war-time workman or parts shortages? Also, there is a large gap in Supers recorded in the Olds Register in the 12000 serial number range.
Several Supers during war-time production have aluminum valve guides, spring barrels, top/bottom caps and finger buttons. Fortunately, serial numbers were still being stamped on these parts so they can be determined to be original. While war-time demand for all types of metal was likely, it is possible that Olds improvised using whatever materials might have been available at the time in order to keep producing instruments. Likely these types of substitutions impacted other instruments as well.
The photo from Centex Brass shows these parts from #13120.
Although the tone control band width changed early in the production, the style of the engraving remained fairly consistent through the 13000 serial number range. Then, two Super trumpets had slightly different engraving. LOS ANGELES , CALIF changed from the script style into a block style The photo is #13043 which is is silver plated.
#13120 is a lacquer finished trumpet with a nickel-silver tone control band shown in the photo. The engraving is the same modified style as #13043. These are the only two Super trumpets with this modified engraving style. Perhaps the war also had something to do with this as more civilians entered military service. #13120 is one of very few lacquer Supers produced during this era.
The tone control band engraving changed again, but this time it stayed the same for a for more than three decades (other than replacing Los Angeles with Fullerton) It is unknown if these first tone control bands with the new style were brass or nickel-silver because there are no known photos of a lacquered Super until after #15000. #13563 is shown in the photo and is the first known Super with the new engraving style (and it is silver plated).
The tone control band on all Supers with this new style were photo engraved. Once this new engraving style was put in place, it remained consistent for the remainder of the production in Los Angeles.
• 13000-14719 Most horns were produced in factory silver. The Olds Register was a self-reported endeavor and while useful, is not definitive. However, all evidence is that the Supers of this era were silver plated. Factory silver was always an option, yet very few silver plated Supers were recorded until this range.
According to the current serial number estimates, these would have been produced in the early 1940's just as World War II was breaking out. US Military orders for brass instruments have traditionally been for silver plated instruments, so whether Olds began producing silver plated trumpets for prospective sale to branches of the US Military or they had orders from the military, it is certainly not a coincidence that the majority of Super Trumpets of this era were silver plated. Shown to in the photo is #14605, an original satin silver Super Trumpet with polished accents.
• 15537 Brass tone control bands replaced the nickel-silver bands for the next few thousand, with only a couple exceptions recorded. There has long been speculation that this was due to material shortages during World War II; however, it would be hard to believe that brass would have been in plentiful supply during the war. It is more likely that these horns with brass tone control bands were produced just after WWII, when there was a shortage of nickel-silver, but brass was no longer being used for the war effort.
Super Recording models during this range also had brass tone control bands.
I've never seen anyone comment on this , but in the part of the engraving "Super Olds" it looks like there is a small bear in the middle of the "O" in Olds, but perhaps I'm seeing things.
This is my dad's Super Trumpet SN 18168 that he purchased after being discharged from the Navy in 1946. He had a dance band in Houston and continued playing until he passed this on to my oldest brother and then me in high school. In 1977, I made my first vintage horn restoration mistake when I talked my dad into getting this trumpet relacquered. I learned later what a poor job they did when I realized the tone control band engraving had been completely buffed off. For my dad's 80th birthday, I had Charlie Melk completely restore the trumpet and install a new Olds Super bell that I'd acquired. My dad didn't' know the difference between Fullerton and Los Angeles, so he enjoyed his newly restored trumpet for the next fourteen years as he continued to play in the community band. After his passing in 2019, I had Charlie install the Los Angeles brass tone ring bell that I'd acquired to match the original bell on this trumpet.
The main tuning slide brace disappears from production and the newer slightly less rounded and more ‘D’ shaped main tuning slide appears. #17686 is the last Super with the older rounded crook tuning slide with a brace. #17837 is the first Super with the new tuning slide configuration. The Super Recording model trumpet would keep the brace for the balance of its production, but the subsequent Recording model never had a brace. Shown in the photo are the two styles of tuning slides. The older style is on the right side of the photo.
• 18792-18851 3rd slide stop rods/adjusters are discontinued.
• 19000 The lightweight Olds Supers are gone. The tubing became thicker without changing the bore, and the trumpets heavier. A slide from a post-19000 horn cannot be inserted in a pre-19000 horn.
19213-19585 1st slide saddles were discontinued and don’t appear again until the mid 70s. The Mother of Pearl nib returns on the 1st slide.
Early post war pistons were nickel plated brass rather than nickel plated nickel silver. The range of serial numbers is not known, but likely similar to brass tone band.
A few nickel-silver tone control bands are recorded in the Olds Register between #18000 and #22000; however, in reviewing photos of more than two dozen Super trumpets in this range, only one has a nickel-silver tone control band. # 19590 is shown in the photo. After #22545 there are no more brass tone control bands.
• 52338 - 58244 The flat-style beam bracing between the slides was changed to more of a post-style.
• 52338 The last Super trumpet recorded with flat style beam bracing between the slides.
• 58244 The first Super Trumpet recorded with the new slide bracing.
• 59513 - This Super has Straight Sided Balusters, rather than the traditional Olds "bulbed" style. A few other Super trumpets have been identified with this design change, all in the 59000 serial number range. Several Recording trumpets in a larger range of serial numbers also have this style of Balusters.
The replacement of the trombone style waterkey with a standard water key on the third slide is an example of a change that is not completely sequential by serial number. #52338 is the first documented standard waterkey on the 3rd slide; however, most Supers of this era continued to have trombone style waterkeys on the 3rd slide. By #68254, all subsequent Super trumpets have a standard waterkey on the 3rd slide.
Several silver plated military issue (US or USN engraved on the bell) Super trumpets in different eras have been observed to have standard waterkeys on both the tuning slide and 3rd slide.
As a player, I find it awkward to have different style waterkeys on the same instrument, but Olds did this on the Super, Recording, and Special trumpets and cornets.
• 63691-101456 Brass upper balusters replaced the standard nickel-silver upper half. (This occurred on the Special trumpet and cornet as well).
This may have been as a result of material restrictions placed by the US government during the Korean War. nickel silver trim on the Super trumpet remained unchanged.
The Mendez model was introduced during this era (#86000) and had brass balusters with very little nickel silver and this remained constant even after the nickel-silver balusters returned to the Super. All Recording model trumpets and cornets continued to have nickel-silver balusters consistently during this time period.
• 80000 The size of both the top and bottom caps are changed to a larger diameter. (This occurred on all Olds trumpets and cornets at approximately the same time)
The photo shows a set of three of the older style bottom caps on the bottom and a set of three of later style on the top. The thread sizes are obviously different. The older style measures .815 inches in diameter. The later style measures .865 inches in diameter.
• 100000 Two pin valve guides discontinued on the Super as well as other models. The Mendez model began production around serial number 86000 with single pin valve guides. Perhaps this was developed for the new Mendez model and then carried over to the other models.
The photo shows the older "two pin" style of valve guide. Each guide consists of two pieces. The two pin style consists of a brass keyway that is inserted into the opening in the spring barrel. The ring is inserted over the top of the spring barrel and seats into the two grooves in the bar.
The photo shows one valve guide disassembled and another with the two parts connected.
The photo shows the later "single pin" style of valve guide. Each guide also consists of two pieces. The large ring with the single keyway pin is inserted into the opening in the spring barrel. The smaller retaining ring is inserted into the groove of the larger ring to secure it to the spring barrel.
The photo shows one valve guide disassembled and another with the two parts connected.
No more changes occurred until after the move of the production to Fullerton and the Super Tone Control Bands continued to be engraved "Los Angeles" for a few years.
The production numbers increased dramatically having been around 1,500 horns a year in the late 1930's to 1,500 a month by the early 1950's.
Information about changes in the Super trumpet in the Fullerton era will be added in the future.
Topics for future updates:
Changes by Serial number
• 3900-6600 3rd slide adjuster/stop rods were used intermittently.
• 4000-4300 Forward facing 2nd valve slides were changed to the standard rear facing design.
• 4300-4500 Tone rings grew to their widest and began a slow reduction in size until 5500, where they remained fairly constant throughout the remainder of production.
• 4788 The earliest model showing a bore marking. This one is marked with an "M" on the 2nd valve case (on the opposite side from the serial number) and measures to be a .453 bore
• 4879 What appears to be a special order has surfaced in England (by way of the original owner’s niece), in polished silver and with an ‘M’ bore marking on the 2nd valve case.
• 5400-6100 This series of trumpet and cornets were stamped with bore markings, and there are 3 known so far with the SYM bore, which in this period measures .460-.461. #5891 (also an SYM bore) appears to have a rose brass bell. There are 6 others recorded with LM bore stamped on #2 valve casing including a few cornets.
• 5800-6700 The original main strut bracing was changed to the newer style main bracing.
• 6600 3rd slide adjuster/stop rods appear consistently on almost all supers.
• 6700 1st slide ‘side’ saddles began to be mounted on top of the slide.
• 13000-14719 ALL horns were produced in factory silver with only 2 exceptions recorded.
• 15000 Brass tone rings replaced the nickel-silver rings for the next few thousand, with only a couple exceptions recorded.
• 17000 The main tuning slide brace disappears from production, the newer style ‘D’ shaped main tuning slide appears.
• 18000 Nickel-silver tone rings return and were used in mixed proportion with the brass tone rings through 21000.
• 18792-18851 3rd slide stop rods/adjusters are discontinued.
• 19000 The lightweight Olds Supers are gone. The tubing became thicker without changing the bore, and the trumpets heavier. A slide from a post 19000 horn cannot be inserted in a pre 19000 horn.
• 19213-19585 1st slide saddles were discontinued and don’t appear again until the mid 70s.
• 21151 The last recorded brass tone ring appears on a cornet.
• 28961 A left handed super trumpet is produced.
• 34586 A left handed super cornet is produced.
• 52338 - 58244 The flat style beam bracing between the slides was changed/updated the more current pin style.
• 52338 The last Super trumpet recorded with flat style beam bracing between the slides.
• 58244 The first Super Trumpet recorded with the new slide bracing.
• 59591 - This Super has Straight Side Balusters. It is the only Super identified thus far with this design change but several Recording trumpets near this number also have this style of Balusters.
• 63691 - Last example with a trombone style waterkey on the 3rd slide
•65034 The dual trombone style waterkey configuration is replaced with a standard waterkey on the 3rd slide. At least on example of a standard waterkey on the 3rd slide was found on #52338. Several silver plated military issue (US or USN engraved on the bell) Super trumpets have standard waterkeys on both the tuning slide and 3rd slide.
• 63691-x000 All Brass upper balusters replaced the standard nickel-silver upper half. (This occurred on the Special trumpet and cornet as well, but not on the Recording model)
• 80000 The size of both the top and bottom caps are changed to a larger diameter. (This occurred on all Olds trumpets and cornets at approximately the same time)
• 90000 The upper half of the brass balusters returned to nickel-silver for the remainder of production.
• 100000 Two pin valve guides discontinued on the Super as well as other models. Interesting that the Mendez model began production around serial number 86000 with single pin valve guides. Perhaps this was developed for the new Mendez model and then carried over to the other models.
• 153840 The first recorded super trumpet with a Fullerton tone ring.
• 242707 The last recorded Los Angeles tone ring appears on a super trumpet.
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